Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: joeblow2 on August 21, 2011, 04:39 am
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I know some tricks but I thought I would ask the community at large because I bet you guys know a lot of things that I don't.
I have a friend who needs to be clean for a mandatory drug test for an initial job interview at a secure facility. He is taking roughly 240mg of roxis daily for the past 6 months. He has a two weeks to get ready. What tapering schedule, vitamins, supplements, etc. can he take to make this as painless as possible.
No need to comment on the fact that it will be painful and agonizing, I've already told him that part. :) I'm looking for a way to help him make it bearable instead of like the cold turkey methods we all know and love...or should I say hate? :P
Thanks in advance to all of you that I know will weigh in and give grand advice.
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Tapering doesn't work IMO, at least not for me. Once your high, one more pill is easy to justify. Cold turkey and lots of excersize to keep your mind distracted. Take my advice with a grain of salt though, never developed a opiate habbit. I consider myself lucky that I don't get any euphoria from opiates (Ive tried, believe me). Just pain killing properties.
Plan B would be a pissantor, should work even if someone is watching as long as they don't inspect his junk. Quickfix would work too if he has privacy.
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Once had a mild habit.
Only method I found was cold turkey and surround yourself with friends that will forgive you for shouting at them. Weed helps a little but he wont be able to fall back on that if he has a test to pass. Like I said my habit was mild so it was more temper/anxiety than physical sickness.
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Loperamide (Imodium?) as needed can be helpful. It's an opiate, but it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, so it doesn't get you high.
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clonidine is the ticket... with lopedermine. with those two and maybe a benzo, but that would show up too if hes not scripted it. Fast taper. 1 week, then cold turkey using clonidine and lope. those two are the best for a quick taper, cold turkey, jump...
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tapering does help, its pretty damn important infact. heres the options as i see them
1. get a script for opiates so he can stay on them
2. taper (can use kratom to help)
3. cold turkey then suboxone taper
to me him trying to get a script for opiates is the easiest option, he can then just say he has a script for them. an addict is going to have a hard time quitting just for a job interview. if thats not an option i would recommend a suboxone taper, i've heard they work well. just stop taking drugs for like 24 hours+ then take some suboxone and taper that down over 4 days or so. i've never used kratom and dont know much about it but some swear by it.
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Taper with Suboxone start start asap.
First day take as needed and then taped daily .5mg to 1mg...this will take at least two weeks, but then you have suboxone in your system.
So the right kinda kratom is the only acceptable method that wouldn't raise flags on a drug test and if you get the
maeng da kratom it will be the best taper.
http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/6086
nomad bloodbath
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Options
1) Get a prescription for any opiate (for justification if shows up in system) and he ends up not being able to stay clean for two weeks.
2) Ease withdrawals with: sugar/candy, gatorade/powerade, and benzos and/OR clonidine (if they show up in test, BOTH could be justified with a "old prescription for a flight (fear of flying) he had to take or some shit.) I'm NOT an advocate for suboxone, and unless he's extremely certain he can "taper", he'll just become addicted to the suboxone. Yes, I have had friends who have become addicted to suboxone.
As an ex opiate user of many varieties, replacing one opiate with another opiate will NEVER work in withdrawal scenarios. And even after YEARS of abstinence, even one or two "pills" as it were, can throw your tolerance/withdrawal potential right back to where it was. (Sorry for the off-topic, there!)
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It is true that there are suboxone addicts too.
I was simply giving suggestions to get off of oxycodone addiction withdrawals.
:D
nomad Bloodbath
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He could try my pills
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If you taper/jump with lopedermine, you will most likely need than just a few.. You can buy bottles of that stuff for like 10 bucks. For a pack of 20 costs 6 or 7 bucks or more at a grocery store. the bottles at Amazon are huge. Also keep in mind you usage. If you are taking 200mg of oxy a day you are going to need more than 5mg of lopedermine. The last time I had to do that, I took 20 lopedermine pills and waited, then took 5 more every couple hours til the WD's were held at bay.
I considered lope a life saver... Then I combined it with clonodine. I wold say that going from about 300mg of oxy a day to zero only with lope and clondidine (and a few benzos) made my life 90 percent better. I didn't have teary eyes, yawning, didn't shit for a week and slept just fine... I have heard many stories of the same. Its just kind of scary to take so many lopedermine pills,lol. Lope was first a scheduled narcotic. It just doesn't cross the blood brain barrier very well. (actually, almost not at all) so, it doesn't give you that euprhoric feeling. It actually made me tired, too..It should be in every opiate lovers war chest...
I tried kratom a few times. this when it was first available years ago. I ordered a couple times but I didn't fine it useful. Others swear by it. I just didn't find it helpful. Just like you will hear people say that lope. doesn't work for them, but kratom does.
The first rule of opiates is that everyone eventually learns, "Ya gotta pay to play"......
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It is true that there are suboxone addicts too.
I was simply giving suggestions to get off of oxycodone addiction withdrawals.
:D
nomad Bloodbath
i love you Normal, didn't even notice it was your post, just read the "suboxone" part....withdrawals and drugs are diff for everyone, to say the very least. Like, for the life of me, I benzos will NEVER get me off, nor does my body get develop tolerance (I remember I used to swallow Valium like candy....nope not even then.) Opiates, on the other hand. Just weird. Different strokes for different druggies. ;)
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First, your friend has my sympathy. Opiate withdrawal is no fun. I do have a few warnings though.
First, if he is thinking about taking suboxone, please be aware that if he has more than a few milligrams of opiates in his system sub can precipitate the wd's. One minute you are feeling fine the next you are not a happy camper. They normally ask you how much you opiates you have been taking a day, then calculate how long you have to stop before you can be put on sub's. So be careful if you go that route.
Second, if your friend has been a heavy user for that long, it can take longer than normal to get the opiates out of his system. Although it says 1-2 days for opiates, it can take longer. If it was me, I would want to be clean at least 5-7 days before having to take a test (I have tested positive having stopped 5 days before the test, having done quite a bit before that).
In a medically monitored hospital based detox, they give you pseudo-barbituates and clonidine and sometimes methadone (at least that's what they do up here). I will tell you right now it only helps a little, but it does help. He cannot do the barbs or methadone because they will probably come up on the test, but the clonidine is mostly a blood pressure medicine and unlikely to show up on any test. But be careful with clonidine, it can drop your blood pressure so low you end up fainting.
I would taper as much as possible until a week before, then start with whatever he can get his hands on that will help, but won't be picked up by any test. Sleep when he can, hot baths and showers, try to stay occupied and active.
Any other type of non-opiate drug that will help him sleep or relax would also be helpful. Anything to help him get through the last 5-7 days.
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I am one of those that swears by Kratom. It is a given that you must exercise as much as possible to speed up the removal and repair process while kicking. Kratom hits the receptors and allows you to get out of bed and get moving, especially during those first few days. I'm not sure how it will affect the piss test but it will keep you from staying rolled up in a ball on the floor.
And in my opinion tapering is not an option if you only have 2 weeks. Like the Captain said, taking any opiate within 5-7 days could still show up.
"You've got to pay to play". Absolutely goddamn right.
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After doing a little research on Kratom, I would have to echo weaver77. It does seem that Kratom is used quite a bit to help with Opiate withdrawal. It seems to bind to the same receptors.
I did a little research regarding whether or not it will show on a drug test, and the consensus seems to be it will not, unless they specifically test for it, which is extremely rare. It will not cause a positive if they are testing for opiates.
I see someone is listing it for US delivery. It sounds like a really good option. I wish I had known about it the last time I had to go through the WD's. (I think I will get some to put aside, just in case)
Good luck.
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Looks like the advice here has been pretty spot on, but figured I would give my two cents...
Get on suboxone. It doesn't show up on most drug tests unless they are specifically testing for it. If they will be testing for it, taper using suboxone, or other opiates. Although this is incredibly difficult to do if you're an addict. I've tried and failed many times. Having a friend dole out the dosages might work. As nomad said, drop a mg or so per day for the subs. As for using suboxone, wait until you're in bad withdrawals before taking it. For the amount you specified, I would abstain for 18 hours minimum, and preferably 24 hours before taking any. Look up the COWS test and the scores you need on it.
I've heard loperamide can work but I've never taken it at the dosages nomad suggested. The posts stating that it's an opiate that doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier are correct I believe. Even if you aren't taking it at those high of dosages, it can help stop the diarrhea.
Dextromethorphan can supposedly help lower tolerance, although from personal experience it's not that much. Just take 30-60mg per day of the 12 hour stuff while you're tapering.
Doxylamine succinate(an OTC sleep aid) and Seroquel(few hundred mgs) can help with sleep. I tried benadryl one time for sleep; it only made things worse.
Clonidine can help with some of the withdrawal symptoms and anxiety as well.
Benzodiazepines can help with the anxiety, as well as cannabis, but both show up on drug tests.
I've been there before and hope everything works out. Good luck.
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Take suboxone
Dont have suboxone? Take kratom
Dont have kratom? Take 20 loperamide's (seriously, 20)
Oh and as the guy said above, doxylamine succinate.
I wish i knew about doxylamine succinate in my past withdrawals. Now I can sleep every single day of withdrawals, even if I am cold turkey.
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^^ +1 for Kratom.... I know this thread is old, but it's worth bringing up. I used to swear by Suboxone until I found Kraton. Quality Kratom can be found for about $30 - 1/4 Lb (legally, online) and about 5 grams 2-3 times a day is all I need to fend off withdrawal symptoms and satisfy cravings (and get a little buzz)
Anyone interested should check out a message board - like kratom connoisseurs before ordering, as not all kratom is created equal.
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cold turkey im afraid is the only way, nothing but another opiate can stop or reduce the symptoms and taking a weaker opiate will just delay the inevitable withdrawals, 1 week of hell is way better than months of chasing a cure, frustration when you realise there is no easy way out and then still have to go thru the week of hell anyway.
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Baclofen can take him through it, it is used for alcohol addiction but really works to weaken opiate withdrawal. After building up the dose it even takes away the psychical craving that can get you back on to your addiction. Recently it is used in rehabs in Holland and it works fine for many patients. I use it to kick the light symptoms after my recreational heroine sessions.
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Taper with Suboxone start start asap.
First day take as needed and then taped daily .5mg to 1mg...this will take at least two weeks, but then you have suboxone in your system.
So the right kinda kratom is the only acceptable method that wouldn't raise flags on a drug test and if you get the
maeng da kratom it will be the best taper.
http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/6086
nomad bloodbath
that is the classic way people try to come off opiates and 90% of them fail, taking a different opiate wont help you in the end, an opiate is an opiate whether its df118, trammadol, bupranorphine, codine, methadone, yes it will help or even totaly stop withdrawals, then what? coz you will still ba addicted to opiates you are just kidding yourself, all are highly addictive and the reduction method just makes the whole experience even longer, only difference between reduction and cold turkey is that reduction makes you suffer longer, you would be surprised at how little difference there is between withdrawing from a half g of h a day habit to withdrawing from half ml of buprenorphine,df118 etc after a reduction program. very little difference. THERE IS NO EASY WAY OUT, and in the end you are still gonna have to withdraw no matter how many years it takes you to realise you have just been chasing your own tail.
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Take a lot of hot baths. Stay in a hot bath the whole time if you have to. Drinking water constantly.
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i used lop for a multiple opiate pill habit. i will state for some people (particularly me) there is a mild euphoria with high doses and it can cross the blood brain barrier (we're talking 80 mg though). however it absolutely erases all my opiate cravings and is very functional. i've been titriating off it slowly but it's very inexpensive to (about 1 dollar a day). and it lasts for like 24 hrs. reduce by 2 mg per week and might take awhile but during that period reg opiates have no effect n u don't desire them.
*destiny*
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I like etizolam and other benzos after suboxen, you have to be careful with subs, they will raiseyour tolerance fast! How about volume or clonipin? I took kratom in capsules and had no effect. where and how do I get good kratom
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I recommend Kratom. It's cheap and legal, but you won't get high from it. It works well for withdrawal symptoms though!
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Taper with Suboxone start start asap.
First day take as needed and then taped daily .5mg to 1mg...this will take at least two weeks, but then you have suboxone in your system.
So the right kinda kratom is the only acceptable method that wouldn't raise flags on a drug test and if you get the
maeng da kratom it will be the best taper.
http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/6086
nomad bloodbath
that is the classic way people try to come off opiates and 90% of them fail, taking a different opiate wont help you in the end, an opiate is an opiate whether its df118, trammadol, bupranorphine, codine, methadone, yes it will help or even totaly stop withdrawals, then what? coz you will still ba addicted to opiates you are just kidding yourself, all are highly addictive and the reduction method just makes the whole experience even longer, only difference between reduction and cold turkey is that reduction makes you suffer longer, you would be surprised at how little difference there is between withdrawing from a half g of h a day habit to withdrawing from half ml of buprenorphine,df118 etc after a reduction program. very little difference. THERE IS NO EASY WAY OUT, and in the end you are still gonna have to withdraw no matter how many years it takes you to realise you have just been chasing your own tail.
The point of methadone isn't to taper somebody off in a few months and then be done with it. It is a program that when done right, takes years to complete, but works. It is so that a person can slowly lower their dosage under proper medical supervision. Yes, they are still addicted, but they have a set daily amount that will slowly go down. It's so a person doesn't have to try to taper themselves off, and have their own stash of pills (or whatever), where they will probably screw it up one day and take a bunch, going back to square one. Of course it doesn't work 100% of the time, nothing does. Cold turkey doesn't have a high success rate either, because many many people who do make it through the physical withdrawal will screw it up because they aren't mentally ready, and once they smoke that pill or do that bump, they are right back into it, and after many failures like that, many people probably are going to stop trying. It can also be dangerous to go through withdrawals without medical supervision, so it's safer for the user. No it's not a perfect system, but it's also wrong to say that reduction just makes them suffer longer, because in the end, even if it takes 2 or 3 (or more) years, it's better than constantly getting clean and then slipping back into the habit over and over again for that same time. Sorry I kind of went on a rant there, maybe your experiences have been vastly different from mine, I just had to add my point of view because I personally know somebody who was saved by a methadone program, and I had to defend it.